UK and EU Politics

Libertas
UKIP

Libertas

http://uk.libertas.eu

Posted to a Libertas social network group:

The Problem With Libertas:

From Gavriel Shaw
www.gavrielshaw.com

Ok, I'm just thinking out loud here, and really want to believe in a party such as LIbertas that supposedly stands up for liberty, however…

I just watched the UK Libertas Launch video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4SNyP5S2ws
and a question occurred to me…

Libertas advocates democracy. Which most people take as meaning 'rule by majority'.

But Libertas is suggesting that we should complain about the majority vote of the 27 EU parties, explaining that Britain only represents about 4% of the EU parliament.

So if that is correct, what is Libertas' aim? To create a mass majority of itself and thus have a greater weighting in EU parliamentary votes, but banding together and creating a majority shareholding of the EU parliament, right?

Well first of all that shows tendency towards control of minorities (which is the central problem of so called democracy anyway), but it also doesn't seem inline with true democracy where everyones vote should be counted and the natural majority sets the rules, because in fact it wants to create a coordinated controlling majority, which suggests that natural fully dispersed and divergent democracy is actually not wanted by Libertas.

Bottom line: Isn't democracy just a means of putting people in power to rule over those without, whether the party calls itself a european union, democratic government, or pro european party for so called 'liberty'?

When are politicians going to start talking about genuine liberty of the individual, the great republic of the founding fathers of america, individualism, individual rights, and the notion that governments are only granted powers by the people to protect the people, not to force them into obedience?

Well, that's my rant. Any one have any feedback?

To which Andrew replied:

Interesting point, Gav.

You're absolutely right, representative democracy is always in danger of turning into the dictatorship of the majority. That is why I personally believe in "liberal democracy" – i.e. a system of government based on popular consent linked with personal individual liberties.

On to Libertas. The main issues they have been set up to deal with concern the democratic deficit in Europe. In other words, the current eurocracy system actively discourages popular input, control or accountability. We want to push the system to change, so that people can have input. That doesn't mean excluding others with different views – on the contrary, it means welcomign a vigorous debate. Of course, we want to build a majority with the European Parliament to support our platform – as with any other political programme. But above all it is about changing the terms of the debate, so that the political future of Europe is in line with what the people want, not just what the eurocrats want.

Does Libertas support increased personal liberties? To be honest, I don't know. I don't think it's a priority issue for them. But democratic societies are more likely to safeguard individual rights than non-democratic societies.

United Kingdom Independence Party

Except for the above same point about 'democracy', UKIP looks to be an important group to support. http://www.ukip.org/

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